Here are the two points that stuck with me most from last night’s debate. To me, at least, it’s at the heart of why Obama still holds the upper hand in this tight Presidential race. Both are serious issues, unrelated to an awkward laugh or smile. And the American people are interested in substance, not just style:
IMPROVEMENTS IN THE ECONOMY:
Mr. Ryan, as always, refused to acknowledge the improvement in the economy, at one point throwing out a canned talking point about the increase in unemployment in the depressed industrial city of Scranton, Pa., Mr. Biden’s hometown. “That’s how it’s going all around America,” he said, ignoring the steady reduction in the national jobless rate, which dipped to 7.8 percent last month.
“You don’t read the statistics,” Mr. Biden said, jumping in. “That’s not how it’s going. It’s going down.” He repeatedly pointed out that Mr. Romney had firmly opposed the federal bailout of the auto industry, which turned out to be the single biggest act of job creation in the last four years. Mr. Ryan responded weakly that Mr. Romney was a “car guy,” but offered little in the way of economic proposals beyond cutting taxes and ridiculing the Obama administration’s stimulus program.
(http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/12/opinion/a-debate-with-clarity-and-fervor.html?hp)
ABORTION:
Ryan took the stance that his personal faith and public opinion are tied, and for this reason is pro-life.
He said, “I don’t see how a person can separate their public life from their private life or from their faith. Our faith informs us in everything we do.” Furthermore, he criticized the Democratic party for allying themselves too closely with abortion, which he feels is infringing upon religious liberties, citing examples such as Biden’s visit to China.
Biden made a fine distinction in his faith. Though he, too, personally accepts his faith’s position on abortion, unlike Ryan, he does “not believe that we have a right to tell other people that – women they can’t control their body.” Fundamentally, he said, he differs in opinion from his opponent.
Biden began by talking about his acceptance, on a personal level, of the Catholic Church’s teaching that human life begins at conception: But I refuse to impose it on equally devout Christians and Muslims and Jews, and I just refuse to impose that on others, unlike my friend here, the—the congressman. I—I do not believe that we have a right to tell other people that—women they can’t control their body. It’s a decision between them and their doctor. In my view and the Supreme Court, I’m not going to interfere with that.
(http://www.neontommy.com/news/2012/10/third-portion-vp-debate)
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I understand that Biden wiped the floor with Ryan.
The latest unemployment numbers did not include the state of California. For some reason, they are blaming it on Columbus Day, Calif. did not get their numbers in before the report was made. These numbers would have show an increase not a drop. Furthermore, the unemployment numbers do not include those individuals whose unemployment benefits have run out or those who have just stopped looking for work. These numbers are shown in the increase in welfare recipients. The actual numbers of unemployed nation wide run closer to 11%. This can be verified by a number of different reports.
Jeff Heilmann
I believe that has always been the case. You can’t suddenly, for political reasons, start including areas of statistics that haven’t been included before, and then compare those new statistics to past performance that didn’t include them.
In other words, if one had included those folks whose benefits have run out, etc., in say, 2007, then one could compare that rate to current statistics that also include those folks.
Jeff,
If we went by the criteria prior the FDR administrations we would have an unemployment rate in the mid-20′s. Since the the 40′s the criteria has been monkeyed with trying to make who ever controls the executive branch look better. Reagan administration changed the status of military personal from out of the work force to employed. This is not a new game and is another example of what we have with the big two is an illusion wrapped in spin, lies, and propaganda.
So what are you saying, Jeff? Now that Obama is in office, these things should be emphasized w/o going back and recalculating real rates for every prior Prez. Lots of assertions; not an iota of evidence.
Jeff,
That report is being challenged:
http://www.businessinsider.com/california-the-jobless-report-was-correct-2012-10
Here’s a bigger picture perspective:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-10-12/surprise-jack-welch-missed-shows-better-u-s-growth-economy.html
The Romney campaign did get a boost today, however. Lindsay Lohan endorsed him:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/12/lindsay-lohan-romney-vote-employment_n_1960935.html
Hahahahahaha. Wonder what kind of bump he will get from Lindsay Lohan?
Ewwwwwww…
I equate getting a “endorsement” from her like being told you have a curable case of VD…….
You don’t want to tell anyone about it, as if they did know, they avoid you like the plague.
Jill Biden Tweeted That The Vice President Couldn’t Shout, “Boom. Biden’d” At Sweet Mr. Ryan…
Great now we have “number gate”. What fools.
Just imagine if all Vice Presidential Candidates were able to participate? Cheri Honkala a lifelong activist on issues of poverty, domestic violence, and homelessness. She would have brought a much different perspective to the issues and probably would have been more representative than a career politician (who I like and had rated 5 notches above Obama in 08′ primary) and man who grew up with great wealth and privilege.
http://www.jillstein.org/cheri_honkala
Cindy Sheehan would have had a much different view of our foreign policy. Peace and Freedom
Jim Gray a judge from the Libertarian Party
Luis Rodriguez an anti-gang activist Reform Party
Now that would make for an interesting debate with vastly different views of the world.
Has Ryan ever heard of this thing called “separation of church and state”?
If Ryan wants his faith to help him do good, go lobby Romney’s rich buddies to fork up some money to help feed the poor, or build some free or low cost health cilinics where people can get basic medical services like pyhsical exams, dental, and vision care. Basic economics, try and help people before they have to be rushed to the emergency room. Its much more cost effective.
What seems to be decidedly missing from this and every other debate is any discussion at all about Citizens United and how that has changed the playing field. For example, the American Petroleum Institute, a non-profit and therefore not bound by the same financial disclosure laws as PACs, poured tens of millions of dollars into attack ads against any Democrat who voiced concerns about the environment. Eighty-six percent of 2010 incoming freshman Republican congresspersons signed a big oil sponsored pledge to vote against any regulation related to climate change. The five Republican appointed Supreme Court Justices are the greatest threat to our democracy in history. The paper tiger of global terrorism has our attention while the country is being stolen from within.
Joe, spot on. It all starts with Rhenquist–new book, The Partisan, by John A. Jenkins is first full bio of Rhenquist. With him the damage starts.
Mitt Romney’s Go To Guy For All Things Supreme Court Is Robert Bork. Anyone Remember This Guy? As Far As The Vice Presidential Debate Went I Believe Mr. Biden Revealed What A Greenhorn Ryan Truly Is. I Wouldn’t Trust Mr. Ryan To Manage The Local Starbucks Let Alone Be Leader Of The Free World.
Actually I think it al starts with the Powell Memo; and unknown milestone in American politics and political organizing.
http://reclaimdemocracy.org/powell_memo_lewis/
Steve,
The John Birch Society a.k.a. Tea Party I (Fred Koch) and the Powell Memo were definitely the outlines for what the Republican Party has become today. Absolutely far right ideologues that are willing to take down the country to win an election and if they fail to win the election they still leave our government very hobbled. It is disgusting.
DARN! Just lost entire reply. Ben and Steve, I’m not really disagreeing. I’ve said before, I think the leadership and many members of GOP are basically a criminal enterprise; the miasma of Nixon’s White House is still polluting our air and some peoples thinking–tea people and modern gop. I stated “the damage started” with Rehnquist who was John Mitchell’s de facto attorney, and the memo I cited precedes Powell ‘s memo. My comments were simply about a new book that most, including me, probably hadn’t heard of. It appears Jenkins’ credentials are impressive and I’ll bet the book is a good read, well researched with proper methodology and a thought provoking thesis excellently presented and supported by Jenkins.
The string of 5-4 SCOTUS decisions, I believe started after Nixon’s two, conservative justice apts. The 4th amendment has already been brutalized by mostly 5-4 votes. The “Culture Counter-Revolution,” being waged by a more insanely extreme Right wing, continues, more creative and blatant in telling the BIG LIES.
Whatever one’s beliefs, nailing down with absolute certainty an exact incident or time history went into labor, eventually giving birth to a new “ism” is extremely problematic.
I, for one, intend on purchasing Jenkins book and will try to comprehend the thesis and evidence of this author. His peers have honored him, so I expect his intellect is worth probing by reading his Rehnquist analysis.
I Don’t Know Much About The Powell Doctrine Or Corpacracy Or Oligarchs And Such But I Do Know That When A Guy Like Rush Limpballs Whines About You Being Rude And Mean You’ve Won.
Thought I included part of a quote, or the first reply vanished, as often happens when using this laptop, Hal, while in bed. I was just relaying, briefly, quotes from the book, from latest History Book Club review. Rhenquist arrived, D.C. in 1969 and became asst. A.G. in Office of Legal Counsel; John Mitchells chief Lawyer. Full quote may arrive in two emails, depends on Hal’s mood.
“Within three months of arriving at Justice, Rhenquist put together a nineteen-page memorandum for John Dean . . . .Rhenquist’s April 1, 1969, memorandum was classified, and it never traveled beyond Dean’s briefcase (he took it with him to the White House), but Dean thought of it as a potential smoking gun–’actually, it was more like a smoking cannon left out on the testing range.’ Rhenquist proposed rewriting the Constitution to drastically limit the rights of criminal defendents, and repealing the protections of Bill of Rights when it came to actions by states and localities.”
Jenkins, the author “is a four tme recipient of the A.B.A.’s Gavel Award Certificate of Merit, the highest award in legal journalism.”
So much goes back to Nixon era. Powell Statement was after this memo, per my interpretation. Really, just wanted to let people kmow about this new book. I do plan on buying it and putting it on the stack of bks. not yet read.
President Obama on Paul Ryan’s obsession with Ayn Rand:
http://dangerousminds.net/comments/obama_on_ayn_rand