This was posted on Rush Limbaugh’s website:
A Statement from Rush
March 03, 2012
For over 20 years, I have illustrated the absurd with absurdity, three hours a day, five days a week. In this instance, I chose the wrong words in my analogy of the situation. I did not mean a personal attack on Ms. Fluke.
I think it is absolutely absurd that during these very serious political times, we are discussing personal sexual recreational activities before members of Congress. I personally do not agree that American citizens should pay for these social activities. What happened to personal responsibility and accountability? Where do we draw the line?
If this is accepted as the norm, what will follow? Will we be debating if taxpayers should pay for new sneakers for all students that are interested in running to keep fit?In my monologue, I posited that it is not our business whatsoever to know what is going on in anyone’s bedroom nor do I think it is a topic that should reach a Presidential level.
My choice of words was not the best, and in the attempt to be humorous, I created a national stir. I sincerely apologize to Ms. Fluke for the insulting word choices.
Filed under: Uncategorized
Rush and many people in the shock jock political commentary profession use “it was a joke defense”. If it was a one time thing, maybe. Rush has at least a couple dozen of these things a year for twenty years, its not a joke and there is no defense for it.
Sometimes they are jokes but usually very callus and cruel jokes. Here is an example
“Socks is the White House cat. But did you know there is also a White House dog?”
— while holding up a photograph of 13-year-old Chelsea Clinton on his 1993 television show, Rush Limbaugh
Read more: http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1882947,00.html#ixzz1o6hMgumU
Blah, blah, blah, blah….
Oh, so now we can’t take a joke? That’s supposed to be an appology? Limbaugh is the Republican’s God Father so there’s no way in Heaven or Hell he’ll stop pounding the pulpit of hate and bigitory until his fans turn him off and stop doing business with his advertisers. Not gona happen.
eHarmony advertises on his show. I don’t know how to say what I’m thinking.
Wanda,
That is a good idea, we should flood KNCO with complaints and threat of boycotting their advertisers.
First thing monday morning I will be calling KNCO offices.
I posted this to my facebook page and hope others will do the same.
All those who live in Nevada County please contact KNCO and ask them to pull Rush Limbaugh from their morning line up. If they don’t we we will start boycotting their advertisers. These remarks aren’t anything extra offensive for Rush Limbaugh but for some reason caught the ears of the American public.
KNCO Business and Mailing Address
1255 E. Main Street, Suite A
Grass Valley, CA 95945
(530) 272-3424 Business Office
(530) 272-2872 fax
Russ Steele is calling Ben’s comment an attack on free speech:
http://2012nevadacounty.wordpress.com/2012/03/03/local-left-has-decided-to-attack-free-speech/
“attack on free speech” (while actually attacking free speech)
That’s one of the memes of the extreme Right. But I don’t think it means what they think it means. Or the words that come out of their mouths, for some reason, never get filtered through their brains. Interesting phenomenon. Seems pathological to me.
I saw that too. It’s OK to attack anyone’s comments or their person if someone doesn’t agree with those people. Hypocritical 101 being taught on their blogs. They are the masters of it hence, the “do as I say, not as I do” mantra was born.
An attack on free speech. I am using his his favorite tool, the market, to try and influence content on the radio. Rush can say whatever he wants and I get to object to it.
I attached this link to the post on FB
Attempt to prevent a sunccessful lawsuit?
That, plus the exodus of advertisers from Rush’s show. It has nothing to do with “free speech,” which always is a cop out for a display of abysmal judgment.
Better for the hard right to let “sleeping dogs lie” on this one, because it’s not defensible or “winnable.” Polls show their divisiveness already has them in the “dog house” with moderates.
I’m not much of a fan of boycotts in instances like this, but I do think it would be a good idea for KNCO’s management/owners to address the issue online. This is a “community” radio station.
I hope they do just that. Rush’s comments obviously crossed a line, and they run his show locally.
Rant Rocket Rush? Get the hook!
THE VAGINA MONOLOGUES
Starring, (in order of appearance)
Darrell Issa and the Manboards
Several Celebate Catholic Bishops
8 GOP, Predominately Male Run Statehouses
Random, Transvaginal, Ultrasonic Sales Reps
Various Vascillating Multiple Marrying GOP Presidential Candidates
and…Rush Limbaugh (who probably hasn’t seen lady parts since he left his mothers in 1960 ought…
Brought to you by: Clear Channel, The Vatican, Bain Capital, NASCAR and the Grand…OOOLD…Party Poopers. There Now…hmmm, tell me. Have I left anyone out???
Kate
Here’s why Carbonite pulled advertising from Rush Limbaugh’s show:
http://www.carbonite.com/en/blog/A-Message-from-Carbonite-CEO-David-Friend-Regarding-Ads-on-Limbaugh
A Statement from David Friend, CEO of Carbonite as of 6:45pm ET, March 3:
“No one with daughters the age of Sandra Fluke, and I have two, could possibly abide the insult and abuse heaped upon this courageous and well-intentioned young lady. Mr. Limbaugh, with his highly personal attacks on Miss Fluke, overstepped any reasonable bounds of decency. Even though Mr. Limbaugh has now issued an apology, we have nonetheless decided to withdraw our advertising from his show. We hope that our action, along with the other advertisers who have already withdrawn their ads, will ultimately contribute to a more civilized public discourse.”
——
Original post:
Over the past two days we have received a tremendous amount of feedback on Rush Limbaugh’s recent comments. I too am offended and very concerned about his comments. Limbaugh’s remarks have us rethinking our future use of talk radio.
We use more than 40 talk show hosts to help get the Carbonite message out to the public. The nature of talk radio is that from time to time listeners are offended by a host and ask that we pull our advertising. This goes for conservatives like Limbaugh and progressives like Stephanie Miller and Ed Shultz. We even get customers who demand that we pull the plug on NPR. As an advertiser, we do not have control over a show’s editorial content or what they say on air. Carbonite does not endorse the opinions of the shows or their hosts.
However, the outcry over Limbaugh is the worst we’ve ever seen. I have scheduled a face-to-face meeting next week with Limbaugh during which I will impress upon him that his comments were offensive to many of our customers and employees alike.
Please know your voice has been heard and that we are taking this matter very seriously.
Sincerely,
David Friend
This entire discussion is stupid…
Bonnie if this discussion is so “stupid” why do you comment? Why do you make a point to comment on the very right winged sites as well? What is stupid is the misogynistic comments from the extreme element of our local right wing commenters. Between Todd, Russ and George there is enough evidence of anger and vitriolic comments to push away any moderates from the GOP. Defense of Limbaugh is certainly an indication of an individual’s feelings on women and birth control.
Equating birth control with prostitution is simply moronic at best.
Ken…I did comment on one of the other sites and gave my reasons. All this stuff does is create a diversion so we don’t pay attention to what’s important. Rush Limbaugh was dumb for making his remarks and more or less admitted it. Why the persecution to want to even pick on the radio station that carries his program? I seem to recall the same hysteria over Sarah Palin, and nobody apologized for trying to destroy her and her family. It’s sickening and stupid. I don’t like this mob mentality no matter where it pops up.
Bonnie, would you like it if someone went over to Rebane’s blog and called your discussions “stupid”? This discussion is very thought provoking and Rush needs to be exposed for bitch he is. If our discussion is over your head, please feel free to move on. I’m doing something about this such as pulling my support in the form of revenue to places who think it’s OK to trash women. As it is, I don’t support business with your buddy’s propaganda in town here. Maybe you feel it’s OK to be treated with disdain and called the names that Rush said to the woman (as it’s your right to do so), but a lot of us women will not put up with it.
Actually Annie…I did say it was stupid on Rebane’s site too. And I do think it was stupid of Rush. As for trashing anybody…it’s disgusting all the way around….
Bonnie, I believe that the apology from Rush was insincere. I believe it was done to slow the exodus of his sponsors. What really bothers me most is the simple fact that some conservatives are supporting Rush and accepting his “poor” choice of words as his error. I see no mention of his sick desire to view videos of Ms Fluke in a sexual relation as he expressed. I don’t think that a boycott is the best solution, I instead believe that communication directly to the sponsors have a much better result. I am a father of three daughters and I will not allow the radical right to insinuate that my daughters are sluts or prosititutes.
One more note, when the Dixie Chicks stated that they were ashamed that Bush was from Texas too, Clear Channel Communications banned them from airplay. Clear Channel Communications has been silent on Rush. That silence speaks volumes Bonnie.
As most frequent readers on Sierra Foothills Report know I don’t really promote political parties a whole lot because I think they are a big part of our problem. Since we have a partisan system in place I register with the party I believe represents my political philosophy the most. That is why I am registered Green. One of those reasons is the party openly advocates feminism in their platform. It is part of the Ten Key Values. The first four values are considered the four pillars that connect all Green Party affiliates around the world.
Grass Roots Democracy
Social Justice
Ecological Wisdom
Non-Violence
Feminism and Gender Equity
Decentralization
Community Based Economics and Economic Justice
Respect for Diversity
Personal and Global Responsibility
Sustainability
http://www.cagreens.org/
I notice that ass isn’t mentioning his tax-supported (through R&D) and insurance-covered Viagra….. Can we say HYPOCRITE? There is nothing free-speech about this. It is slanderous and he should have his Viagra taken away… and probably all the Oxycotin he is gulping down as well. What a pig. I will enjoy his final take-down and roasting.
Good idea Reinette. I hope there’s a big party to celebrate that.
I could not be happier that conservatives have latched on to contraception as a bell weather moral issue for the 2012 election–and I really don’t see how they can pivot away from it even if their likely candidate (Romney) has not been in the front ranks with a pitchfork–it is a losing issue because 54% of the electorate are women, 98% of them have used contraception, and their partners don’t particularly like their loved ones being called whores, sluts and prostitutes.
(By the way, I think a pretty good case could be made using Rush’s standards that Ayn Rand was a slut, whore and prostitute…..
“The capacity to procreate is merely a potential which man is not obligated to actualize. The choice to have children or not is morally optional. Nature endows man with a variety of potentials—and it is his mind that must decide which capacities he chooses to exercise, according to his own hierarchy of rational goals and values……
In regard to the moral aspects of birth control, the primary right involved is not the “right” of an unborn child, nor of the family, nor of society, nor of God. The primary right is one which—in today’s public clamor on the subject—few, if any, voices have had the courage to uphold: the right of man and woman to their own life and happiness—the right not to be regarded as the means to any end.”–Ayn Rand The Voice of Reason
Reading Russ’s blog–which I am assiduously not commenting on these days–it is clear that the very idea that this is about what health care coverage health insurance providers should be required to carry and not whether or not “taxpayers” are paying for contraception is lost on the dimwitted, misogynist, reactionary audience over there.
And now there are many trying to make this a “free speech” issue, which is even stupider, to borrow Bonnie’s critique, since we all know Rush has every right to talk like an idiot–he does it every day–but that does not mean that people that make money off his particular brand of slander should not be punished economically for doing so. Or that the stations that carry his show should not be held accountable for doing so….just as conservatives bitch about NPR. That is just as much a “free speech” right as the right to call someone a slut.
Please…., keep it up. Keep this issue alive. Let’s hope Romney picks Santorum as his VP in order to heal the party….we’ll see who wins this issue with swing independent voters in suburban and exurban areas of the country…..while we are counting down not only electoral votes, but the 25 seats in the House necessary to shift the balance.
Thank you, Mr. Friend. He and Ben are speaking the only language that angry bullies like Limpbaugh understand: theirs…and we are grateful that the strong, ethical and compassionate men in our lives have stood by us during what can only be described as “this seige”. In America. In 2012…
Kate
Here’s Todd Juvinall’s post:
http://sierradragonsbreathe.blogspot.com/2012/03/ms-fluke-is-really-what-you-tell-us-you.html
Apparently even the CABPRO board couldn’t stomach it so he had to resurrect his Sierra Dragon Breathe (sic).
I enjoy listening to these guys in all their glory — defending the indefensible. This one was a former supervisor in our county. LOL.
At last, George Rebane weighs in with his own sick thoughts this issue:
http://rebaneruminations.typepad.com/rebanes_ruminations/2012/03/the-sad-story-of-sandra-fluke.html
Keep in mind: This is the same guy whom The Union newspaper invites to become a regular columnist; whom KVMR asks to provide commentary on its “news hour”; whom our County supports in his group’s “lecture series” with its official seal, no less; and whom Sue Horne called a “community leader” in her campaign literature when she ran for assessor.
I just read George Rebanes post. His reference is no better (if that’s even the term) than Limbaugh. What a nasty old man.
??? He compares a college student to that pimp Larry Flynt who made millions by displaying the real McCoys?
And then there is this quaint exchange between B. White and John Galt (who is John Galt anyway?) over at Russ Steele’s blog:
B White says:
03/04/2012 at 10:07
Again I need help understanding context. Can someone explain to me why contraceptives are necessary in relation to sex with the same gender?
Reply
John Galt says:
03/05/2012 at 00:56
B White, sometimes contraceptives are prescribed to women for medical/biological reasons unrelated to their primary purpose of thwarting the creation of human life. It’s not very common, but this would explain the circumstance.
Reply
B White says:
03/05/2012 at 08:30
I must admit that I was guilty of a little tunnel vision at the time. When you consider all forms of what is referred to as contraception then there are reasons for use other than to inhibit procreation. My perception was that Ms. Fluke was probably not having that match intimacy with the opposite sex.
Reply
John Galt says:
03/05/2012 at 10:18
She does have a rather strong looking jaw.
Oh, that is precious. Sounds like these boyz like to hide in the closet together when they have sleepovers.
Perhaps the most important thing readers could do is actually read the testimony of Ms. Fluke that set off this ‘firestorm’.
http://abcnews.go.com/images/Politics/statement-Congress-letterhead-2nd%20hearing.pdf
Note, that contrary to George’s contention, there is no discussion here of “having the state pay for the prophylactics used in sexual intercourse.” The issue is whether or not standards for insurance under the Affordable Care Act, that is insurance paid for by private parties, should cover women’s reproductive health, including contraception.
Once again, every one of George’s minions posting on his site is practicing the big lie. This has nothing to do with taxpayers funding anything.
At the risk of breaking Goodwin’s law, and directly challenging Michael’s advice; these guys are channeling the propaganda tactics of Joseph Goebbels, who said,
“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”
This is what these guys really believe in….the big lie.
What they want is for the state to support their big lie, and if they have their way it will. All one has to do is look at the 40-year plan and Mein Kampf will be right in front of your face.
Here’s what Ron Paul has to say:
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-3460_162-57390236/paul-limbaugh-apologized-for-personal-gain/
Yeah, as proof that this is not about the ‘state having too much control’, note that these same yahoos did not object when they believed they controlled the state.
They supported Reagan, Bush, and Bush; they worked in the national security apparatus; they built planes and bombs and software networks to deliver them; they played the spook game; they retired with taxpayer funded pensions; they most likely collect social security and medicare. We pay for them to tear down real American values.
When this society was controlled by white, European, conservative, Christians, who looked and thought like them, they were right there, minions of and supporting the state.
This is all about fear of change; fear of a changing America; fear of changing values; fear of changing demographics; fear of modernity; fear of loss of identity; fear of fear…fear…fear…..
Although my worldview is much different than Ron Paul I have to respect his honesty. I agree with him on many big issues for some similar reasons but our worldviews have very different solutions.
And we all know that Rush was about as sincere as Lord Amherst was when he gave Chief Pontiac and his tribe blankets during the winter–but the blankets were thoroughly infected with small pox.
I almost posted on Russ’ blog re. Fox news, but decided not to engage. I now its the most popular source of news–so sad–but it’s not news that Walter Chronkite, Harry Reasoner, Howard K. Smith, would ever be associated with. Every once in a while, I read the comments below a story, from the readers; they’re appauling in their ignorance, lack of anything to say, name calling, etc. That’s how Russ’ blog and the comments read, too. And the group was just a few guys–the same ole, same ole–talking to each other.
Maybe their tired song still plays in Peoria!
Don’t feed the pigs.
I apologize for breaking my rule and feeding the pigs. Rest assured it will not happen again.
Here is how I fed the pigs by posting at Rebane’s:
I am breaking my New Years Resolution to say that perhaps you guys need to read the actual testimony once again, since George is a big stickler for reading comprehension, implying that anyone who does not agree with his comprehension must be intellectually challenged.
Ms. Fluke DID NOT say that birth control costs HER $3000 a year, she said, “Without insurance coverage, contraception can cost a woman over $3,000 during law school. For a lot of students who, like me, are on public interest scholarships, that’s practically an entire summer’s salary.”
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/page/271051_Full_Transcript_of_Sandra_Fluk
She went on to say that many women could not afford appropriate medication, “Women employed in low wage jobs without contraceptive coverage face the same choice.”
She also went on to make the case that the argument that many other choices are available is sometimes not true, and supported her case with a specific study:
“You might respond that contraception is accessible in lots of other ways. Unfortunately, that’s not true. Women’s health clinics provide vital medical services, but as the Guttmacher Institute has documented, clinics are unable to meet the crushing demand for these services. Clinics are closing and women are being forced to go without. How can Congress consider the Fortenberry, Rubio, and Blunt legislation that would allow even more employers and institutions to refuse contraceptive coverage and then respond that the non-profit clinics should step up to take care of the resulting medical crisis, particularly when so many legislators are attempting to defund those very same clinics?”
Then backed it up with a specific example, one not identifying the purpose of birth control pills being used for contraception, but to treat ovarian cysts:
“In the worst cases, women who need this medication for other medical reasons suffer dire consequences. A friend of mine, for example, has polycystic ovarian syndrome and has to take prescription birth control to stop cysts from growing on her ovaries.”
And then specifically related it to the amendment being considered by the Republican controlled House:
“…..under Senator Blunt’s amendment, Senator Rubio’s bill, or Representative Fortenberry’s bill, there’s no requirement that an exception be made for such medical needs. When they do exist, these exceptions don’t accomplish their well-intended goals because when you let university administrators or other employers, rather than women and their doctors, dictate whose medical needs are legitimate and whose aren’t, a woman’s health takes a back seat to a bureaucracy focused on policing her body.”
And no where did Ms. Fluke say that contraception should be available with “no copay and no limits”.
Correct me if I am wrong but is this not precisely the type of government interference with a decision of a doctor to treat a patient that conservatives have said they are against? Is this fear not the origin of the “death panel” claims made by some? So know you are supporting death panels if they suit your “….traditional cultural mores, especially as they are touted in the Judeo-Christian ethic”.
Nothing could be less Christian, or for that matter more antithetical to the traditional American principle of equal protection, than supporting separate standards for health care coverage based on your personal cultural mores.
And as George points out, if Congress can deny coverage for birth control does that not also set the precedent for them denying coverage for statins if someone eats fatty food, Viagra because it is not necessary, insulin if someone eats sugary foods their entire life, chemotherapy if someone works in a filed where they are exposed to carcinogens?
In addition, Ms. Fluke does not mention her specific circumstances once in her testimony. No where does she talk about how she has sex, how often she has sex, with whom she has sex, whether she suffers from any similar circumstances where she may need to take birth control pills for a non-sexual health related reason.
And yet you guys rush to protect a man who describes an individual testifying in front of Congress as a “slut” and a “prostitute”.
No where is there mention of “having the state pay for the prophylactics used in sexual intercourse”, as George stated. No indication that “people like Ms Fluke will climb in bed with or without the proper contraception”, as George stated.
George states this in his original post, “Here we have the case of a woman who admittedly screws so frequently with diverse partners that neither of them can be counted on, in the heat of the moment, to undertake their pleasures with proper preparation.” There is absolutely no evidence in Ms. Fluke’s testimony to support this statement, and if there were who’s business is it anyway? Sex is a fact of life. It is clearly covered under “life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.” Do you want the government passing judgement on how often you screw? Don’t you all see how antithetical to your own stated conservative values this would be?
No where do the critics here acknowledge that this is about what private insurance companies are required to cover, they perpetuate the fiction that this is about what “the state will pay for”. But the critics do put out a ton of false information, like the fiction that UnitedHealth Group, the private insurance company that covers Georgetown students, is “a Catholic insurance provider whose parent company is a Catholic Organization”.
Amongst the most disturbing things here is how the regular posters allow false, misleading and intentionally defamatory content to stand.
George, you should be ashamed of yourself for jumping on this ridiculous bandwagon. Not only is there no evidence to support your statements, they are mean spirited and cruel, and clearly designed to support punishing this woman publicly for stating her opinion by invitation in an appropriate forum. If this is not intentional intimidation I don’t know what is.
I hope all of your daughter weigh in on this one, perhaps over the next Thanksgiving dinner. But they will probably shake their heads and hold their tongues, electing to value family peace over speaking truth to intolerance. After all, they can’t help it that their parents are out of touch with the world as it is rather than the world as they wish it to be.
Even Peoria isn’t that backwards, lol.
P.S. to Jeff. I’m at 36,000 ft heading west over Iowa on a Southwest wifi eqipped plane. Just wanted to give you a nod from the connected sky. Be home soon.
Followed the link from the latest post that took me to Steele’s Land of the Lost and I checked out the Bastiat Triangle for the first time. Kinda skimmed through it. As this guy, as the article says, did most of his writing near the end of his life–or however it was stated–it means he was/must have been highly influenced by the communes in Paris in 1848 and the other revolutionary uprisings affecting Europe at that time. As I stated before, just walking through the palaces in Russia is enough of a lesson on what causes revolutions and for those of you who have been to France–I have not–and visited Versailles, I’m sure you know what I’m talking about. But this Bastiat guy, talks like Louis XVI’s private chaplin where believing in public schools and minimum wages (plus many other things) makes one a Socialist. (And should any of that crowd be reading, yes I know, Louis was dead by the time Bastiat was writing.)
Presumably, that Bastiat Triangle wasn’t inserted capriciously, so I take it to be their creed, or founding beliefs. Maybe you all have read it and it’s new only to me, but I guess he preferred the government of Napoleaon’s successor. And, he sounded like he thought theocracy was the way to go, ending his long polemic thusly: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgement of faith in God and His works.
I reread a couple of my posts and must apologize for the mistakes. I’m just regaining the use of my left arm and hand after a cubital tunnel syndrom operation. Couldn’t even type anymore, but am slowly regaining the ability. Should proof read, but I sure don’t want to read those long posts. LOL
I read Bastiat as a teenager–during my adolescent philosophical searching days–and again on and off later in life, once my world view was more set.
Personally, I thing that every teenager should read Plato, Aristotle, Marcus Aurelius, Aquinas, Adam Smith, John Locke, David Hume, Montesquieu, Descartes, Voltaire, Rousseau, Sartre, Marx, Camus, Kierkegaard, Nietzsche, …. a whole slew of philosophers actually, both agreeable to your sentiments, and challenging to your belief systems.
This is what teen angst was made for–to explore ideas that may change ones world view–smoking cigarettes, drinking coffee, staring at girls, and trying to figure out what one really believes.
No one can deny Bastiat’s clear and alluring writing style, humor, and amazingly well constructed arguments for his point of view. The Law remains one of the most important books on the philosophy of law ever written, and is a must read. I actually agree strongly that the primary purpose of government is to secure life, liberty and property. Bastiat was a product of his times, his philosophy was critical to defining capitalism.
But all philosophies, and philosophers, must be taken in their context, placed in a continuum of human thought and experience, and seen as a piece of history. Philosophy is the study of the fundamental problems or questions of life, and the application of rational argument to those questions. Bastiat was critical in defining classical liberalism, but the world is nor more the world of Bastiat, than it is the world of Aristotle. Some would decry this as moral relativism; but then what is any belief system but the sum total of ones relative experience and knowledge?
I could no more say, “I am an existentialist” or “I am a stoic” or “I am a classical liberal” than I could say “I am a libertarian”. Thinking people are no one thing, nor can they rationally pick a system of thought and say, “hey, that’s what I am”. If you are not many things, hundreds of things at the same time, you are not really a thinking person.
Hi Steve:
That Bastiat triangle is one of the reasons I don’t comment on those blogs. It strikes me as a totem of belief–which is fine if you share that belief system and its assumptions. But while appreciating the logic and reason behind each system as you do, I also don’t share that belief system of the Bastiat folks. Reducing the nature of government to property, security, and liberty is a gross simplification, and not one found in the Declaration of Independence, or any of other founding documents which tie us together.
Tony
Tony I am totally with you that “reducing the nature of government to property, security and liberty, is a gross oversimplification.” I think the nature of the definition of life, liberty and property is at issue here. My body is my property, my health care is my life, my community is also partly my property. The problem with reducing something to a totem of belief is that it freezes ones definition in a set place in time….In the case of the mindless followers of the Bastiat Triangle, 1850….which is where their current thinking about health care (and women) is.
You are absolutely correct that our founding documents were considerably more flexible and anticipatory of change than the minds captured by a rigid reading of Basiat….and that those that embrace the gospel of Bastiat are actually anti-thetical to American values.
If for no other reason than to block the spread and possible mutation of aids, barrier contraceptives should be available for free until the emergency passes, and that looks to be a long, long time. Besides, every child a wanted child would do more to raise test score in this country than anything else attempted. 110,000 students live in group homes, waiting to be fostered out or adopted. Until that backlog goes to zero, we need contraception. Humans are just too horny to just say no. Government issues condoms to soldiers in war zones all the time, and you can bet they are not there for lawful conjugal visits. Ah the horrors of state sponsored socialism in our military, no less.
On Rebane’s I posted what would happen if every thing broke down and the folks in Penn Valley and Rough and Ready had to fend off city thugs scurrying up to the hills in search of food and stuff. All it would take would be a couple of fire fights, and regardless of who “won,” during the summer the resulting fires would unstoppable and the whole area would soon look like the surface of the moon. Somehow they Right sees itself as getting ready for the next Alamo, when in fact a general breakdown in services and just a few gunfights will result in fires like never before. Anyone who survives the Exodus from the city will most likely be the meanest and baddest and most well armed and ammoed, and all the guns in the world won’t help if there 50 of them and 4 of you.
I spent the weekend playing baseball with my kids, attending Burnal Equinox, and enjoying my wonderful life in Nevada City. And then I come to read this stuff in all the blogs tonight and it just makes me want to stop posting in all these places altogether. It is a disgusting display of sadness. This is a civil rights issue, nothing more and nothing less.
Sandra Fluke is at the lunch counter and she is demanding her rights. They people who don’t get that are fascists and racists and they should be ashamed of themselves. I just posted the following at Mr. Rebane’s blog and I thought it would be a good idea to cross-post it here:
“Sorry guys, I’m going to have to go with Pelline, Frisch, and Emery on this one.
Gosh, it’s as if you have no young people in your midst. They don’t find you quaint. They find you dead. As in “when will these idiot dinosaurs pass away so we can get on with our lives.”
Look, I’m an old guy too. I see the same look in their eyes when I say even moderate things. But you are so off the mark on this one you might as well get in a spaceship and find another planet to live on. How you are framing this is completely wrong. And embarrassing.
This is a civil rights issue, and we are fighting over Selma all over again. Shame on all of you.”
Bonnie McGuire, this is not about promiscuity. This is about individual liberty, freedom, and the American way. Just because it involves women’s rights, for some reason they still have to ride in the back of the bus.
Come on Michael…Whose liberty are you talking about? I can do anything I damn please, and you get to pay for it. Whoopie! I’m all for it!
Bonnie, when you came in here yesterday and called this discussion “stupid” I got a little hot under the collar–Jeff rightly deleted the rest of my comment, which was profane, and I apologize to you for crossing that line.
That being said, since you’re back and commenting away, I’d be interested in reading your thoughts regarding a comment I just posted to Rebane’s blog in response to something inflammatory he wrote (you can go to his blog to read his words). Does what I write here at all change your mind about PPACA?:
“George R., 6:54 pm — Well George, a barfbag may have been the better choice. I don’t speak for anyone else on this subject, just so we’re clear.
1. As a libertarian progressive and small business owner, I recognize the inefficiency of gov’t regulation and the power of the free market. I also know that gov’t is our last hope when corruption and collusion destroy competition and innovation. But all of the negative things you assign to PPACA don’t make any sense since we are barely at the beginning of its implementation. This legislation was designed to be a collaborative process; by opting out your side doesn’t get to complain about the result.
2. Conservatives are to blame for the Tammany Hall aspects of this legislation. The House and Senate Republicans could have injected tort reform and the selling of health insurance across state lines into PPACA, but instead they chose an-all-or nothing approach. This is the unfortunate nature of our broken congressional system of legislation, and you got beat fair and square; it’s time to suck it up and stop whining.
3. I don’t ask for contrite genuflection at all. Instead of spending its every waking breathe trying to destroy this presidency and all things Democratic, Congressional Republicans need to behave like a grown-up opposition party and help make the national health care sausage. As in all things in life, you get what you give. And I all see the conservatives giving us right now are temper tantrums, obfuscation, and a demand that we burn the village in order to save it. Until conservatives are willing to throw someone with no health insurance who is bleeding to death in the ER out into the snow, it is clear that this entire issue is all about making sure that President Obama doesn’t go down in history as the guy who took the initiative to start fixing our disastrous, dangerous, expensive, and corrupt national health care system.
I stand by my prediction. As long as the United States remains a nation among nations, it will have a national health care program of some kind. We will not be going backwards.
Michael A.”
Bonnie, I saw your comment regarding “stupid”: on this forum initially. Now you’re back. You don’t think saying to someone you don’t agree with as “stupid” can be trashing? You don’t like mob mentality which is fair, but do you actually see the mob (midget) mentality going on on some of those blogs? Yes, you can choose to live how you want but so can we, if that means thinking for ourselves instead of how we’re told to as women.
Ha…..Jeff does have standards!
Thanks Jeff. And sorry about the swearing at the end of my rant.
But I’m still pretty hot about this. Private businesses don’t get to decide that they are going to have separate lunch counters for white people and black people, and they also don’t get to decide that they are going to have separate insurance plans for men and for women.
End of story.
I don’t agree with boycotting KNCO’s advertisers, however, because it’s a situation that will sort itself out. As others have said, this is Rush’s MO and his ratings will probably go up once again due to all the publicity he is getting. I feel sorry for Rush, I would not want to have to carry around all of that hate day after day after day.
Michael, you are wasting your time trying to converse with the neanderthals (by that I mean the cavemen over at Rebane’s not us cavemen). They are still trying to make this about promiscuity and the availability of rubbers, which is their strategy for diverting attention from the real issue.
In reality this issue is about basic fundamental human and individual rights.
The real issue is whether or not the government, or insurance companies, or employers, have a right to act as a filter between an individual and their doctor.
And the answer for any conservative would be NO.
Doctors have access to birth control, doctors prescribe birth control. Unless birth control is found harmful to the consumer the government has no right to restrict its access under FDA rules. If the insurance company restricts its access they are liable for legal remedies, which have been pretty strictly decided against insurance companies, and usual only uphold the ability to withhold a drug or treatment if it is experimental.
In this case we have conservatives, who claim personal liberty and freedom are amongst their highest values, attempting to restrict peoples access to legal prescribed drugs. How is this the appropriate role of government? Is this not the very thing that they were describing when they created the fiction of “Obama Death Panels”? Now they are sitting on the death panel star chamber and trying to make it virtuous.
It is no ones business why a women is prescribed birth control–if it to diminish the chance of pregnancy, if it is for ovarian cancer, if it is for control of menstrual cramps–this is between a woman and her doctor.
This is yet another example of how the hypocrites over there think.
They would not make the same case against almost any other medicine (other than medicinal marijuana) but they are making this one because it offends their moral sensibilities.
It offends their moral sensibilities because their religion teaches them that sex is bad, that birth control is murder, and that women are subservient to men.
There was a time, not so long ago, when there was no pill for birth control.
Nothing.
Women seeking to terminate a pregnancy were lucky if they were rich, they could travel out of the U.S. to get help.
Poor women in the same condition had a much higher rate of mortality and sterilization from botched homemade or motel abortions.
There were no other choices.
Think about that for a minute.
Quite an interesting discussion, including all the provide links. I must say, I’m not getting much reading done as I’m here, enjoying the intelligent contributions. Then, I go to one of the midevalist sites, and am reminded of what it must have been like trying to argue a point, feeling the hot, holy breath of the Grand Inquisitors of the Right warming my nape, in a hopeless attempt to exorcise the progressive devil from my soul. But I fear not, for they have come to the intellectual battle carrying their text, a worn Dick and Jane book, while I am armed with Norman Mailer’s expose on their subconscious divinity as told in The Castle in the Forest.
I’ve heard William Buckley speak and at least he could make one laugh and had a mind that could create.
But I try to follow an axiom a friend of mine told me years ago: “Argue with a fool then you become a fool”. Guess that’s similar to, “Don’t feed the pig.”
And Steve, enjoyed your reply. I must admit, while having read some of the writings of most of the philosphers you mention–maybe even Bastiat, although I don’t remember him–and a lot of Voltaire, Marx and Hume–my readings were usually associated with the histories I was engaged in. It is an area where I wish I was more familiar with it’s evolution and transformation. Probably, during my study of histories, the endless doctrinal squabbles which so often turned into heresies, then sanctioned crusades against the heretics: Cathars, Lutherans and so many others, that I lost interest in whether Christ had two natures, one divine and one human . . ;
While never a Marxist, or even close, I did read a lot about him and then, the course of the Revolution in Russia and all the players. And people from that other blogsphere are just so confused, throwing around terms: lefty, socialist, communist, as if they are synonyms. I’ll just say, that Marxism was, IMHO, totally unworkable, but in essence, a very humane, emphathetic system, as envisioned by Carl and Frederick. It just took ruthless S.O.B.’s like Lenin, Trotsky and Stalin to put not Marxism, but Communism, in power. Then, under its own internal contradictions, it collapsed. This business that Reagan won the Cold War is just a whole lot of nonsense, repeated by people that don’t know much about the history of whole affair. For instance, how in the world could they leave Gorbachev out of the calculations. What he did and didn’t do played a deciding role in the fall of the U.S.S.R. But Republicans are the best cherry pickers I’ve ever met and they’d all do well in the Ministry of Correct Thinking.
And poor Marcus Aurelius. I’ve read some of Meditations: but while he would rather have been writing, he had to spend most of his time on the Danube keeping those damn Germans from crossing over. And he did.
It’s tempting to read those Cherry Pickers, but then I feel like I’m back in the Soviet Union, arguing with come communist party member, indocrinated since they were in Kindergarten. They just don’t know any better.